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CommunistWaffle

Something to ponder

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Do you inherently think less of someone because they are religious? That they are somehow less intelligent or reasonable than a non-theistic person? Even subconsciously.

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I wont lie. Yes, I think they are less intelligent. More so with people in organized religions then people with a "personal god".

I'm not saying that everyone who is religious is less intelligent but overall religious groups believe, promote and do some pretty stupid, backwards and racist things.

Also I am a person of science and the "Goddidit" argument isn't helping anyone..

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I am of the idea that you cannot use a preconceived idea that paints an entire subculture one way. I have met people of high intelligence that were deeply religious and others purely atheist. I can also say I have met people of far less intelligence that fall on both sides of the fence.

That being said, I personally do not believe because one believes in something metaphysical that they are less intelligent than another. Perhaps more willing to believe in something beyond the senses would be how I would look at it.

Having sat through many Philosophy courses touching directly and indirectly upon issues of the metaphysical I believe there has been a movement towards the secular. I have even raised the idea that today it seems as though to be considered 'enlightened' (in a philosophical sense) one must deny the existence of any metaphysical God or Gods.

At the end of the day, I would much rather judge a person on their actions towards me and not their personal beliefs (atheist or religious) to decide whether they are reasonable and intelligent rather than unreasonable and of sub-par intelligence.

*Takes off nerd glasses*

Or ya know, come on guys, let's all just get along :P

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I totally agree with Phrozen. We cannot say that those who are religious are less intelligent. Those who follow religion blindly may be less intelligent, but I've observed that many of the religious beliefs have a scientific background. We sometimes are so egoistic that we fail to look the reason behind them...

In case of organized religion, I don't know. I never take part in those things. I think the concept of god and festivals was just to thank the nature and to keep some way to make people do good deeds, which sadly no longer works... And for us to have a holiday n enjoy :P

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To clarify on my post; it may come across as me saying that believing in god makes you dumber due to my lack of details and further explanation (I'm lazy and didn't want to write a bunch.... dunt judge me!). Instead of going after individuals I made my post about groups of religious people as a whole because its so much easier to see relations in intelligence when looking at the average IQ of groups. ( I was too lazy/busy to provide evidence )

What I actually wanted to get across was that believing in god does not make you less intelligent. However, the study/data im including below show that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical to it. Due to that, lumping religious people up in one group and non-religious in another, the IQ differences are apparent.

As I said above, this time I will actually support my reasoning with data and evidence:

The data from a study in 2008 which examined whether IQ relates to denomination and income, using data from the "National Longitudinal Study of Youth" which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of American youth and also answers to questions about religious belief, show that "Atheists score 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions". SOURCE

I think that finishes up my view on this.

Also, remember whats said in Crossfire, stays in Crossfire ;) . I don't want to see people posting hate stuff based on anyones religion or lack thereof.

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Hey Eli,

I just typed a long winded reply but decided to cut it down until I got to the meat and potatoes of that article. Any chance you have a full copy of it? Graduating with a degree heavy in statistics the inner sceptic in me always doubts studies of this kind until I see the raw data. There are just so many potential flaws to a study that concludes such big findings that I always have to look over the raw data before I accept it. At face value I am already sceptical of certain aspects of that study. Any researcher knows that correlation simply does not equal causation.

I do not believe that you can group people as a religious vs non-religious as modern sociology has started to classify religious affiliation in terms of degrees such as involved, somewhat involved, not involved etc. Source by Reginald Bibby.

To me the idea of an independent variable such as intelligence being solely dependent upon one single dependent variable (religious belief) is totally impossible. Just my thoughts though.

I also agree, what happens in this thread stays in the thread! Thanks!

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I just typed a long winded reply but decided to cut it down until I got to the meat and potatoes of that article. Any chance you have a full copy of it?

Nope, I looked and could only find pay sites to see it. Papers like this should really be open to the public...

I do not believe that you can group people as a religious vs non-religious as modern sociology has started to classify religious affiliation in terms of degrees such as involved, somewhat involved, not involved etc. Source by Reginald Bibby.

I was actually leaving out what you call "somewhat involved" in my groupings to just leave the ends to battle each other out. But i wasnt clear on that in my post.

To me the idea of an independent variable such as intelligence being solely dependent upon one single dependent variable (religious belief) is totally impossible. Just my thoughts though.

I agree with you. My source wasnt suggesting that. Just implied people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, not that belief in a religion makes you less intelligent.

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Nope, I looked and could only find pay sites to see it. Papers like this should really be open to the public...

If it is one thing that I truly hate about the academic community now-a-days, it is the fact that information like this seems to rarely be disseminated to the public. Honestly, whatever happened to research purely for the sake of public interest and not monetary gain? Is that the case where you go to school as well?

If I do happen to come across the paper at some point, I will be sure to share it on here.

At the end of the day we are all entitled to our opinion and I hope research on things like this continue on.

At any rate, thanks for the mini-debate, I always appreciate it :D.

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If I do happen to come across the paper at some point, I will be sure to share it on here.

My brother can use his university's account to see papers from all these sites.. Which mean i might be able to get them from my university too.. haha.

Heres your paper:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/qadepj21tueut5u/religion.pdf

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My brother can use his university's account to see papers from all these sites.. Which mean i might be able to get them from my university too.. haha.

Heres your paper:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/qadepj21tueut5u/religion.pdf

Ah Eli, truly resourceful lol. Thanks! I just noticed you posted this so I am going to take a look at it right now.

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Do christians do backwards things? Most certainly all the time, but if you spend the time to find the true christian or whatever religious beiliefs people hold, find the true ones that actually do it right they aren't backwards...occasionally we are but that's just because we're human, no one's perfect and we will never be no matter what we try to force you to think. No human can ever be perfect but people sure try...though we miserably fail no matter if you're "religious" or not you're not perfect, and the people who seem backwards and seem like you just want to stay away from...don't just push away get to know them, maybe you might actually find a "religious" person who isn't like what you think they're all about. Just had to get my 2cents worth in :rolleyes:

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I automatically assume anyone who's super religious is less intelligent. I don't know if it's a good thing, but it is statistically true that atheists tend to be more intelligent other people.

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To be honest, you will find many religious people that are high intellect. But you will find few God-loving people who are intellectuals. Not to say that there aren't any. But few. And there's a good reason behind it.

Mental Intelligence is a physical and temporal trait. "Physical" means "of the flesh". "Temporal" means "implemented in time". Time is a variable quantity, contrary to popular belief. Einstein's special theory of relativity hinted at an uncertainty which could topple his equations. The constancy of this "question mark" factor is still held as a requirement for the theory of relativity to hold and our cyclotrons to function the way they do. This uncertainty is connected to the variable and changeable nature of time.

This means that it is possible to go back in time and it is possible to see the future. However, it is not something that can be initiated by human beings, because they are implemented INSIDE time and exist on a time-axis. To bend time would require a human being to be in control of the universe as a system and exist outside of it, not be a member of the system.

But......we still have plenty of scientists trying, trying and trying to prove that human history follows Charles Darwin's model of evolution, when in reality there are shocking cases of married couples appearing with the same DNA and disproving the exclusivity of DNA karyotypes. These couples' DNA doesn't match a 100% with either parent (which is okay, it never does in anyone), but it matches perfectly with each-other. So Darwin's theory of evolution as time progresses and survival prevails, has its flaws.

The time progress part isn't valid because time is not governed in a single direction, it can mathematically work in reverse also. The survival prevails part isn't valid because survival works on many factors, not fitness, not smartness and not intellect alone. History is full of examples where the fittest didn't actually survive. Fate has a critical role to play. Napoleon Bonaparte and his army wouldn't have lost in Waterloo, if fate wasn't at work. And this is recorded on the timeline. There was no natural selection involved.

Further, the best reason is actually much more interesting, but only a few prized people understand it. The timeline is governed by a clock, much more sophisticated than any watch mankind has ever designed. More even than the atomic clocks. Einstein laboured all his life to find this hidden treasure using physics and mathematics. But in the end his quest produced the question-mark factor. And that's the closest any scientist has ever gotten to the truth about human life.

This is why I say God-loving people are rarely intellectuals. They understand very early on, that mental intelligence, temporal success and physical prowess aren't going to unravel anything. But closeness to the mother and a beating heart full of love hold the keys to life.

NOTE: The following video does NOT contain the answer, but it does explain a thing or two about the timeline. Ignore the part in the end where he talks of ENTROPY. He's smart but doesn't have a clue about how to solve the entropy problem. There is actually a solution to it. Entropy can indeed be reversed. But scientists won't know. Besides, he's talking in a graveyard setting, which itself indicates darkness in the message.

 

Edited by anuj.analytics

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